Leslie sits down with producer, dancer, and choreographer Just Jet (simply known as Jet) for a raw and honest discussion of mental health, suicidal thoughts, and the impact of public scrutiny on personal wellbeing. Warning that this discussion includes a conversation about suicide so if you think you shouldn’t hang out for that, take care of yourself.
Leslie sits down with producer, dancer, and choreographer Just Jet (simply known as Jet) for a raw and honest discussion of mental health, suicidal thoughts, and the impact of public scrutiny on personal wellbeing. Jet shares his remarkable journey from busking on the streets to winning MTV’s America's Best Dance Crew and eventually working with icons like Bruno Mars and Taylor Swift. While this might sound like a dream come true, Jet also discusses the less often talked about, yet significant personal mental health battles and public downfall he dealt with as a result of that fame.
He shares his experience of being canceled during the COVID pandemic — a time already ripe with emotional upheaval and how it amplified his feelings of isolation and disconnection, leading to thoughts of suicide. Jet now focuses his creative energy on music production and is an active advocate in mental health who works to help people understand the significance of connection, gratitude, and finding your purpose.
Warning that this discussion includes a conversation about suicide so if you think you shouldn’t hang out for that, take care of yourself.
Links mentioned in the episode:
Leslie: Welcome to The Nature of Nurture with Dr. Leslie Carr, a podcast for your mental health. I'm your host, Leslie. If you're watching this podcast right now, you can find the audio version in any podcast app. And if you're listening, you can also watch this episode on YouTube at The Nature of Nurture. You can find that link in the show notes.
Today I'm here with Just Jet, or simply known as Jet. He's a musical artist, producer, and dancer. Jet's first claim to fame began after winning MTV's America's Best Dance Crew, alongside his former group, Poreotics. Since then, he's worked and collaborated with numerous artists such as Justin Bieber, Bruno Mars, and THE Taylor Swift.
Jet now focuses his creative energy on music production and is an active advocate in mental health. Check it out. We're going to be having a very frank conversation today about suicide, so if you think that you shouldn't hang out for that, take care of yourself. That said, I think it's really important to have conversations about suicide and suicidal [00:01:00] feelings that are raw and unflinching.
I don't think we should shy away from this just because it's unpleasant or scary. If you need support, please reach out for it. In the U. S., you can now call the National Crisis Line at 988. With that, I want to welcome Jet. So Jet. How you doing?
Jet: I'm good. Thank you. How are you? I'm chilling. Thanks for having me.
Leslie: Thank you for doing this with me. I'm really, really psyched to have you here. So just to back up a little bit and let our listeners know a little bit about just like your history and who you are and what you do. Can you back us up and kind of to the beginning of your career and let people know how you got into Like, how did you eventually get to the point where you were working with people like Bruno Mars and the Taylor Swift?
Jet: Uh, so, you know, I started off as a street dancer. So I was, uh, I was one of those kids that was, uh, you'd call it hitting. Like, hitting on the streets.
Leslie: I have never heard that phrase before.
Jet: It's a street term, yeah. Like, hitting, like, so you dance for money, you know, busking, [00:02:00] that's another word, street performing.
And, uh, this was, oh my gosh, I was doing this in 2004, I think? Mm hmm. So, and this is before we had YouTube. This, I feel like, when I started, YouTube was just becoming a thing. Okay. There was like, maybe like a hundred videos on YouTube. Wow! That's, uh, Really early days. Really early days, uh, I, I don't even think we had camera phones yet, back then.
And, you know, I, I, my roots were there, like in, in street dance and, and in the street dance community. And then the way I got into the industry, uh, I got on the show called America's Best Dance Crew. And this was a, this was a big TV show, like, that I feel like it was, oh man, it was like the 2010s era, around that timeframe.
And so, uh, me and my crew had won that TV show. And from there, that's where I kind of got my foot in the door of the entertainment industry. And it was rough because I, it was like, [00:03:00] first of all, like my parents didn't really support anything of what I was doing. They probably supported me after I won the TV show.
Yeah, no doubt. And so like, and you know, and now since we're, this is a, a podcast that, that covers the topics of mental health and whatever, like I, definitely went through my own thing going through that whole process because I came from the place of just dancing on concrete and then getting on, you know dancing at the peak I would say uh in front of everybody.
Yes. That's like peak performance peak, uh attention. Yes. So that affected me pretty heavily. And I was able to get it uh, get in these, these doors with these big artists.
Leslie: Can you pause a little bit on that and say like how so it impacted you? Like what was it like to go through that transformation and to suddenly have all of that attention on you?
Jet: I'd definitely say that I think the one word looking back, uh, now at my age, it was rough. Like I definitely, I definitely think it's rough. I feel like people don't talk [00:04:00] about this. It's people will talk about like, oh, it's great, you know, fame, glory, all that stuff. But the, the feeling I had now looking back, it was just more like I was thrown into the fire of all this attention.
And then you, you have this, you feel like you have to fit this idea because you're a superstar. At that one point in your life, you feel like you should act like this. You should act like a celebrity. You should, you know, you have, you have to think about how you, how you carry yourself, which is true.
That's, you should be carrying yourself, um, On your A game as much as possible, but like, I was putting on a face, I was putting on a face the entire time. Yeah.
Leslie: The phrase, melting under the spotlight is coming to mind for me right now, not because you were melting necessarily. I think you were in many ways, I know from what you're going to go on to say, in many ways you were thriving, but like just the incredible pressure you must have been under.
And how foreign it must have [00:05:00] felt to kind of have this. It sounds like it was a pretty rapid ascent from dancing on concrete to having that experience. So it must've had like almost a certain amount of like psychological whiplash from that.
Jet: I think that's the best way to describe it. It's, yeah, I think I definitely had psychological whiplash and yeah, there was so many things I've, I tested the limits of my, of my body, my health, like through that whole process.
Uh, and yeah, I, but I also got into these rooms because I was just, I just was good at making connections with people, you know, I would, I may, I developed strong relationships with people. Aside from just my skills, you know, but even throughout that whole process, I was still learning how to be a better person and a better dancer. And eventually I was like, you know what, I'm over it and I think that's where we come to the conversation of, like why we're here.
Leslie: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the things that I don't know, if you want to kind of go here next, is that it feels like a pretty big part of your [00:06:00] story with your street dancing was having had the experience of getting cancelled. Oh yeah, that's it.
Jet: So, yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, so, I guess to, to dive into the story, and you know, I've, this is how I met you.
Mm hmm. And I was talking at, uh at the Parasol event about my experience. And actually that was the first time, when I met you, that was the first time I ever talked about the experience publicly.
Leslie: No way! I did not know that, Jet. Yeah, it was, it was You seem so, like, just like you've been doing this your whole life.
Jet: Well, I think I've been doing it my whole life with my body. Yeah. But in terms of me, like, speaking about it, it's a different Wow, okay.
Leslie: Yeah. Yeah.
Jet: Um, that's cool. I'm glad that I did well enough to bring me here. Oh, hell yeah.
Leslie: Hell yeah. And I actually will, I'll just jump in on that really quickly and just let everybody know.
I mean, you're going to have to be the one to tell us the story, but part of what we're about to dive into is the experience of having [00:07:00] been cancelled on the internet. Right. And I actually just want to preface this by saying that one of the reasons why I was really excited to talk to you about this is that I think that, you know, liberal circles, which is where I live for better or worse, I think a lot of people really underestimate like the power of getting canceled by the internet.
Yeah. Um, it's amazing how obviously everything is polarized in our world right now. But like, and on the sort of political left, there's this idea of like, oh, like, man, getting canceled, like people are just experiencing consequences. And it's amazing. to think about what a big difference it is between somebody experiencing like professional consequences for their actions, right?
And someone feeling like the full weight of the internet turned against them. So I don't want to step all over your story. I would love to hear you say it in your own words. I just want you to know and for our listeners to know before you tell the story that I actually think that there [00:08:00] is some really important stuff in here.
that I think people need to hear. So how do we even like wade into this? Like how, how do we get from street dancing to internet cancellations?
Jet: Um, I think where this all started, um, obviously during the pandemic, everybody was at home and everybody was, uh, how, how do I say this? Um, everybody got very emotional during that time.
Yes. You know, the situation.
Leslie: And everybody was also captive to the internet.
Jet: Yes. All our attention was focused on what was going on. So we didn't really know what was going on outside. We were watching the news, we were watching, uh, uh, we, were just pretty much fed whatever the media was giving us at that time.
Yep. So whatever. And the way I see media after this whole situation, media is a business. The be the media thrives. They make money off your attention. So of course they're going to throw stories at you that, uh, [00:09:00] a captivating tagline, stories that are going to keep you your eyes glued to the, to their, to these outlets.
I can't say TV screens anymore because everybody's looking at their phones. And
Leslie: yeah, yeah. But the economy of like clicks and shares and likes and it's big money. It's big
Jet: money. Yeah. Um, and that's something that I, I identified after the pandemic or even during the pandemic. That's what I was watching.
Right. Um, so obviously there was a, uh, we had the situation with George Floyd. That happened during, during that timeframe in Black Lives Matter. So, and this is, uh, this is how, what's going to lead. With that being said, it's, uh, I'm going to segue that into how that got me cancelled, basically. Sure. So, uh, during that timeframe, uh, there was a big commotion, discussion about, about, people of other races, uh, people [00:10:00] outside of, uh, black culture, like myself, I'm Filipino.
Who, quote unquote, stealing from hip hop culture. So, there's a big talk about that. And, you know, uh, I guess you can say that I was outed for that. I, myself, uh, a bunch of other, uh, dancers who were of, uh, uh, non-black descent, who were, uh, quote unquote, uh, targeted and, uh, targeted and potentially canceled. Because, uh, we had high follower counts, you know, we were, we were making it in the industry, uh, with which, uh, in our, uh, respective positions in the industry if you could say that.
And so, and I think in that timeframe, I was, uh, I was very, I don't want to say I was vocal, but I was one of those people that was just like, wait a minute, hold on. Like, I'm allowed to question this because yes, I'm a part of hip hop culture, but I was, I've been in [00:11:00] this game for more than 20 years. So it's like, and it's, and it's like I understand the, the emotional, uh, how do I say it?
Emotional, uh, um I guess the environment of the time. I get that. But at the same time, it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Like, am I not allowed to question? Because I have contributed I've, excuse me, I've contributed to the, to this scene, to this, to this, uh, to the culture. For such a long time. And then you had, of course, you had this event happen.
But, and it's like, like, wait a minute. Like, does all the time that, and effort, and even money. Because I've invested money. I actually, through events for the scene. I put tons of money into the, into these events. And contributed. And it's like, wait, does that not count because of my skin color? And it's like, I think another thing too, um, and I'm going to dive into the exact story, but I'm just like, if you allow me, Oh, by all means.
Yeah. If you just allow me to put out the by all means subject, Oh, take your time. Yeah. Um, [00:12:00] and going back to me questioning, you know, all of this, this whole thing, and this is before me being canceled, I'm like watching what's going on and it's like, and this goes back to me with my question, like, wait, does my, did my time and contribution matter?
Because I'm not, I'm not black, you know, it's that these are the things that I that were going through my head.
Leslie: Well, it feels really fraught to me just thinking about the fact that like, you're a professional dancer. Right. I think to sort of be, um, accused of cultural appropriation for something that you have been doing professionally for 20 years.
Yeah. Like, it just feels fraught. It feels really fraught.
Jet: Yeah, and, and the thing, I think the other thing too, it's, it's not even just being professional, but like, I had built, uh, I had built, uh, roots and in the community even before I was a professional dancer. So that's another thing that I was just like wait, wait a minute. So like that doesn't count either like I did a lot of this stuff for free like and I was doing this like, [00:13:00] like, I was, you know, I had, I had bloody knees.
I had all these things. Like, like, wait a minute. Like,
Leslie: Yeah, it's like you'd paid your dues. Yeah, I paid,
Jet: I felt like I paid my dues, bro. Like, you know what I'm saying? So, so these are the things that I, that were going through my head. And in that timeframe that I actually got, like, canceled, and this is where I'm going to dive into the story.
Yeah, please. During that timeframe, um, here's the thing. I already kind of knew that, um, I think I was already on my way out of this, this dance industry. I've been doing it so long, and it's just, I think in that timeframe, I was like, you know what? I think I'm gonna start looking elsewhere. So, what I did was, like, you know, like, I, I knew that the entertainment world was the last thing that was gonna come back.
I knew that, especially performing arts. And, evidently it was. Performing arts was the last thing to come back out in terms of the entertainment world. Oh. Meaning
Leslie: kind of in a post pandemic, not totally post pandemic universe, we're still, you know, I guess it's technically the pandemic is over, even though covid is still here.
Yes. But sort of like in [00:14:00] reemerging from that lockdown phase that it was the last thing to come back. Yeah. Okay.
Jet: Yeah. And that's specifically, that's what I'm, I'm talking about. Okay. And I was like, but that's how I always thought I was like, I, I always thought ahead. Mm-hmm. That's how I've always been. And I was like, okay, you know what?
I'm going to go jump in the stock market. Because, yes. I was just like, yeah, I mean, like, I was just like, this is my time. Like, I have to do it. And so I, I jumped in the stock market. I definitely made money there. But the consequence of that was, um, I saw a world completely different than what my artist community saw.
Because it's, it's like, when you look at the, the world from a, an economic standpoint, you see how things are really moving. And this goes back to my, my, uh, my point of how I talk about the media and how like, uh, the media is just basically just, they make money off of feeding you headlines and your, and your attention.
Indeed. My community, my artist community, doesn't see it like [00:15:00] that. So it's like, I started to see things from a different perspective. And also, when I was trading in the stock market, I was in rooms with people that I wasn't usually around. You know, I, I grew up liberal. So I was, uh, from me growing up, I was always around, you know, liberal arts people, but in the stock market, I, I was, I was kind of rubbing shoulders, uh, virtually with, uh, with conservatives, moderates, all different types of people.
So I had a different perspective and it's like, I think the idea of what, especially, uh, uh, going back to how we see or how I saw conservatives. Uh, especially in the, in the early Trump era, I was like, oh, these people are crazy. But then, I'm in these rooms with these people and everybody's like, everybody's actually kind of cool and everybody's sharing information because we're all trying to, we're all trying to make money.
And in the, in the stock market, you make money when, when everything moves together. That's the best way I can describe it in one [00:16:00] sentence. I don't have to dive into the, to the technicals of it. But that's a totally different podcast. Yeah, that's totally different podcast, but it's like if a bunch of people throw money into one stock, it's going to go up.
Absolutely. They want that. Yeah. Everybody wants that. They want everybody to jump in and then it's up to you to, to, to sell. That makes sense to get out for sure. Yeah. And some people will lose when it drops. Yes. So it's kind of like, you see a big wave in the stock. And then you, then one super rich person will just sell and everything just drops.
It's
Leslie: an interesting way to think about it. Yeah. That is, that is, it is sort of this lesson in kind of mass behavior, right? That you've got things sort of moving in one direction or moving in another direction, but you kind of need people to sort of be like lemmings.
Jet: It's, it's a giant Ponzi scheme. Sure.
That's, that's pretty much what the stock market is. And it's, it's, uh, it's a very extremely legal Ponzi scheme. That's the best way I could describe it. On a sub level, yeah. Yeah, and negative aspects, but you can, but, [00:17:00] you know, there's still positive aspects in a way where you can still make money off it.
It's a money making investment vehicle. Mm hmm. Um, so anyways, to cut it short, I saw a world from a different perspective. Mm hmm. When I was, when I kind of came back from my artist community, and everything's done virtually, it's not like I was in person. You know, I, I started seeing that there was an organization in the dance community that was targeting, and this goes back to me talking about how, uh, people being targeted were non black, uh, in hip hop culture.
Sure. And I see that they were, they were calling people out like, hey, you're stealing from our culture. This is wrong. All this stuff. Yeah. There was a lot of people, uh, uh, of, uh, of Asian descent and I have to be specific now, uh, when it comes to this, because I'm Filipino, um, and I feel like, I feel like what this organized, excuse me, this organized organization was doing was like, they're just targeting Asians.[00:18:00]
Okay. Yeah. So, and the thing is, um, and I have, I have to dive
Leslie: in. You don't have to name what the organization is, but I take it. It was a specific organization. So this isn't just like a person or group of people. It was an organization that was pointing its fingers at Asian people, I take it, namely Asian, effectively hip hop dancers and accusing you of cultural
Jet: appropriation.
That's basically it. Okay. That's the best way to describe it. Yeah. Thanks for filling that explanation and filling those, the gaps in there for the audience. Just
Leslie: trying to make sure I understand.
Jet: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. Um, so the thing is, it's, yes, it's like you have some people who are definitely, definitely culturally appropriating.
There are people like me who've been in the game for a long
Leslie: time. But I take it it all kind of came down to a specific video, huh? Uh,
Jet: so yes, yes. Okay, so, uh, basically, uh, this is the reason why I guess you can quote unquote, I got cancelled. Mm hmm. [00:19:00] So, um, and, and then I'm gonna bring back my analysis. Okay.
Let's talk about this video. We can go back to the stock market. Oh, yeah. The hot tech. Oh, no, no, no. It's, uh, less about the stock market, but, like, the why I got cancelled.
Leslie: Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay.
Jet: Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, there was a, uh, so someone had reached out to me, um, from the organization and they were like, hey, we want to talk to you.
I'm like, oh, great. Is it my turn? You know, like, um, because there was a video that I had posted, uh, uh, during, I think during the, yeah, like during the pandemic. There's a video that I posted of me dancing in Nigeria, and it was a video of me dancing in Nigeria in 2019. This was pre covid, and I, I posted this video and then I, I, but I think they reached out to me because of the caption that I wrote.
So the caption that I wrote, uh, basically, uh, I talked about what was happening in Nigeria at the time. So what was happening in Nigeria at the time was there was a, uh, the government [00:20:00] hired a paramilitary to kind of handle business. They, they, gave these people guns, and these people, uh, basically, what's the word for this?
They, it's not overused, but they, they took advantage of the, this, this power. So they basically took advantage of the government, like, alright, we're gonna use these guns to steal, we're gonna use, we're basically gonna just be our own bosses, basically. So they started shooting and stealing from people and whatever, and I was just like, and all my Nigerian friends... Uh, granted, I, when I was in Nigeria, I made a lot of friends out there.
You know, I had a great time. I was judging an event out there. And, uh, so I, and I was just like, I'm, I'm seeing what's happening in Nigeria. At the time, I'm like, I'm like, yo, like, this is crazy. I'm going to talk about it. So, I, I re upload this video from 2019 of me dancing in Nigeria. And, and then I write this caption, [00:21:00] but then p, I start to get hate for that video.
Okay. Like the, and the verbiage mostly was like, what the f*** is this? Like, basically it was just like, you're cultural appropriating all these things. And I was like, in my head, I'm like, wait a minute, but I posted this video in 2019. I got mad love for it. Mm hmm. But because of the timeframe, what, uh, of, of what it was.
Or of when I posted this video. I got a lot of hate. Mm-Hmm . And I was just like, okay. I was like, oh, okay. This is, this is, this is wild. All right. So in that timeframe, I had someone from the organization reach out to me and like, hey, we want to talk about that video. Uh, And I was just like, okay, yeah, sure.
Let's talk about it. You know, I'm like, okay, cool. You know what I'm saying? Um, and I get on a, I get on an IG live with, uh, one of their members. Okay. And, and I thought it was just going to be like a talk. Hey, let's just, we'll just talk about the video. But then when I got in there, I realized that I got baited into a, into [00:22:00] basically like a, a cancellation session.
Oh my god. So basically that's what happened. So basically just to, uh, to, I guess to, to summarize it in that time in that video. Um, I basically just was caught off guard. Sure. So yes, I they wanted to talk to me about the video. But they were there to like basically just like burn me at the stake at the same time.
Yeah. And so they were saying things like, hey like, like that video that, that how do I describe this? I'm like, I'm going back into my head. I'm like realizing the trauma again. Yeah. Yeah. But it's they're basically, in one, in one sentence, they were saying things or this, this person that I was talking to was saying like, you shouldn't be posting up that video.
You should have a black voice posting up that video if you're gonna be talking about this. And I was just like, like, whoa, dude. Like . You know, like, and it's weird because when I posted that video in 2021, uh. Again, I had a [00:23:00] lot of the Nigerians supporting what I was doing because I, you know, I, they, they knew that I was about the culture.
I was like, yeah, cause it was weird because like they basically like took me in, like as an, as an outsider because I was, and I was, cause I was so into what they were doing. They took me in and I had all the support, but then I had people in America saying, How dare you? That's
Leslie: cultural appropriation. You know, what I'm thinking about right now, as I'm listening to you speak, as I'm just sort of thinking about the moment that we're in currently, which happens to be what, October 20th, 2023, just to timestamp the recording of this video.
Yes. Um, and Tensions in the United States right now and across the world are just so completely flared because of what's happening between Israel and Gaza. And it's just amazing to think about how intense the rhetoric is where there's this feeling that like, no one can say anything right that, you know, like you can say something that is, let's say, um, empathic to the Palestinian [00:24:00] citizens that are being bombed and you're accused of like hating Jewish people, like just the, the, um, the rhetoric right now is like, everything is just on a razor's edge.
And I'm just kind of, you know, thinking about that being brought back to this time period where it just feels like not only were you being accused of something, you know, just in the way that you're describing, but just this feeling of like everybody's emotions being so heightened. And in some ways, like for in ways that are completely understandable, because this is really sensitive stuff that we're talking about, and also everything was just like inflamed.
So I'm just sort of imagining what this must have been like for you to get kind of sabotaged in this interview at this time when like tensions were really, just everybody was very tense.
Jet: I would like to come back to this topic, but don't you find it interesting how It's this [00:25:00] emotional, uh, stress and reaction to everything is, it's happening again and again.
It's like, you had that situation, you had this situation in Ukraine, now it's the Israeli, Israel Palestine conflict. It's like, my observation is, it's, this is a very, it's a very common human thing to have a reaction, like a overreaction to things. Yeah. I don't want to say overreaction. Granted, people can react as they want to.
Well, and
Leslie: overreaction is, I'm with you that it's kind of a, it's a kind of a tough label. And yet there's something I think very real about the fact that, um, it's, things start to feel irrational. Yes. Like, I got on Instagram live the other day, just to talk about the polarization that I was witnessing. Because one of my areas of expertise as a psychologist, sort of unfortunately for me, is political polarization and looking at how the internet, like internet [00:26:00] behavior fuels this polarization because it starts to become almost like road rage, like I know someone else that was canceled during that year one lock down.
Um, and I know that one of the things that happened for her was that she had, she said something. I'm not even going to get into it because it's like it was a, this was like a massively viral video. Oh wow. She was caught saying something on video that someone perceived as racist, and in some ways, understandably so, but it got like, um, well over a million, uh, views, you know, at this point, I don't even want to know how many millions of views this thing has gotten.
And what people didn't understand was that if you actually knew more of the backstory, her individual statement taken totally in isolation was like, there was a meaningful amount of context that was missing. Long story short, it's just like, in a universe where the internet starts doing its thing, [00:27:00] we enter this territory where it's almost like, um, we go back to the Stone Age, where people are getting, you know, people get stoned.
And there's this kind of, um, what, what's the phrase that I'm looking for? It's almost like death. Death by stoning like without a jury. You know what I mean? Like, you don't really like look at the evidence and come to a rational conclusion, right? The internet just starts doing its thing and the internet is a beast.
So I don't know how much of that is what happened for you. Like, did you, did you, did you sort of feel like you kind of got digitally stoned
Jet: basically? Yeah. I'd like to come back to this, this, uh, Israel Palestine, uh, Palestine. topic later. But uh, I basically, that's how I felt. And uh, I think just to go back to that, um, the conversation of when I, of, of, uh, being in this IG live with the organization.
[00:28:00] Now, I was in there and I was talking and this whole time, and this is, this is how I, I, this is why I say I felt like I was baited. Because, yeah. In the conversation, and here's the thing, um, in, in IG Live, when you look at a video when it's, uh, when it's saved and reposted, you watch it later, you don't see comments, you just see the conversation.
Exactly. But in that timeframe, I see all these comments of people talking mad s*** at me, like. Oh, wow. And I had people who were, like, people that I, uh, that I hired, people that I work with and traveled with for years. These, these were all people that just, like, that I, I thought I was friends with, who were attacking me.
Leslie: Can you give me a sense of just even like one thing that you remember somebody saying?
Like, what kinds of commentary were you watching? Roll through the feed.
Jet: Uh, it was basically, uh, uh, before I, I get to that, I'm, I'm gonna, I feel like for my brain to make sense in telling this story. Uh, basically, uh, the reason why I, [00:29:00] I guess I got canceled is because, um, this organization had reached out to a lot of people and all of them just said like, oh I'm sorry, you know, like this, I'm sorry.
And, but I didn't say sorry. And I think what, yeah. The reason why I didn't say sorry was, this person I was talking to, uh, she had, she had said what I did was an act of white saviourism. And so I was just like, wait a minute, I'm not, I'm not even white. But I think in that timeframe, I think Asians were, were, were like white adjacent.
So, like, and it's, it's like, I can understand that maybe for like, like, maybe like Chinese, Japanese. But I'm f***ing Filipino. Here's the thing like, and that's, that's what that, it made me question like my own, like my own, like, like history and this, you know, like, wait a minute, dude, like, like, I don't think you get it, but Filipinos have been colonized and, and raped by Spain, Japan, China for like, for like, such a long time.
We're pretty much more, we're more [00:30:00] Mexican, Hispanic adjacent than any other Asian, if that makes sense.
Leslie: So it's like, to me, it's just a really big sign of how ultimately irrational the whole conversation was
Jet: becoming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. And, and so like, and I, in my head, I was like, like, ah, I ain't backing down.
Like, like, I'm like, I didn't say sorry. Cause I was like, that's not fair. Um, you know, and I remember her saying that, like, what you're, you know, what you're doing is a, is an act of white saviorism. And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, dude, I'm not, I'm Filipino. Like, you don't, I don't think you guys know what, like, Filipino is.
Like, like, yes, I'm a light skinned Asian, but like, like all my cousins, they're all dark skinned. You know, like, it, it just, it didn't make f***ing sense to me. So, um, after, after that, well, I would say the aftermath, you know, in that timeframe, I'll just say that, like, I didn't back down. I was the only one, I think that's the reason why I got cancelled, because I was the only one, uh, out of my community that said, nah.
Yeah, I'm not, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fall for this s***. No,
Leslie: and I'm standing by it. I'm standing
Jet: by it. Yeah, this [00:31:00] is stupid. Like, I'm like, like this, like, first of all, like, like where I came from, like, dude, like, I came from a lower class family. Like, I came from a family that had everything and we lost everything.
Yeah. So it's like, it's like, this isn't fair. Like, I work my, my way up. Me and my family worked our way up to get to where we're at. And even me, being on the f***ing concrete, working my way up to, to being in this, in this, uh, in this dance industry as a professional dancer, like, this isn't fair. I'm not gonna back down to bulls*** like this.
This is not fair at all. I don't care about, uh, like, identity politics or whatever, like, at this timeframe, it's like, it's like, yo, like, I put in the work. Yeah. And these people, a lot of these people in the organization, they weren't professional dancers. They didn't put in the work. It's like they, they were, it's like they wanted to feel powerful as, as victims.
as people who didn't make it in the industry. So it's like, this is not fair at all. And so I, looking back, I'm thankful that I did. I, [00:32:00] I'm, I'm thankful that I, I didn't back down. I look to my past, my past self and I'm like,
Leslie: awesome. I'm so glad you feel that way. Yeah.
Jet: I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, thank you, you know, like, I'm glad. Because three, uh, like, like a couple of years later after that, um, when the, when, uh, everything started to open again and when the pandemic started to come to a close, I had people who these, these very same people who, uh, who my friends, I thought were my friends, my compatriots try to talk to me again, like nothing happened. And I'm just like, and the reason why is because what
people start to realize is this organization, what they were doing, uh, is something that I, that I start to understand, uh, what they were doing was not just singular. There was a lot of organizations that were doing the same thing. It's like they were basically capitalizing off the situation with Black Lives Matter and the George Floyd situation.
And they, what they were doing was they were trying to gather people, gather the attention from the people that, uh, from [00:33:00] these videos of people getting cancelled, like they were gathering them to their own business projects.
Leslie: Oh my god. So, you can look this up. That is really so f***ed up. So,
Jet: so, this is something, you can look this up on YouTube.
It's called race hustling. This is something that I've learned, and this is actually a YouTubable topic that people were doing. They were gathering the attention of, of all these people. They were, and they were trying to bring people into their business. They're, uh, businesses and what they're doing is they're basically creating education type businesses of, of, uh, like, hey, this is how you should do things.
Uh, I don't know if I'm, I'm breaking this, breaking this down, uh, in a way that people can understand.
Leslie: It just sounds like they were trying to take advantage of the moment for their own advantage and like for their own gain. Yeah. And
Jet: it's weird because a lot of these people, a lot of these organizations were very anti-capitalist, but in a sense they were basically capitalizing off the situation.
So in a sense it didn't make
Leslie: sense. Right. At least, or at least they were saying they were anti-capitalist.
Jet: Yes. Yes. Because at the end of the [00:34:00] day, this is something that I've learned also, like, from being in the stock market and just seeing things from an outside perspective and zoomed out perspective that like the whole idea of like these different parties, like liberals, liberalism, conservatism, it's all bulls*** because at the end of the day, everybody just wants money.
Everybody wants to live. So it's like, like, I, and I get that, but it's like, and this is why I always try to look things, look at things from a, from a human perspective. I see what they were doing. They wanted money. They wanted to fund their organization, you know, that's what conservatives do too. You know, so it's like, you know, I, I, I get that.
Um, but do I think the way they were doing it was, was right? No, because you had a lot of people like myself that were just like, this is not right. Like a lot of collateral damage. There was a lot of collateral damage. Like that organization. I don't even know what's going on with them anymore. There's a lot of people that don't, and this is, this is a street term.
They don't f*** with that organization anymore because they saw what they were doing. Yeah. They just wanted money. So, [00:35:00] um, and now that the kit, the pandemic, uh, uh, ended and you have the industry, dance industry opening it up again, everybody's going back to normal. Everybody's going to classes. Nobody's trying to like, play a victim or whatever because everybody just wants to dance because in the first place the thing about dance is what is dance exactly?
Dance, it begs the question, dance is a celebration of life. Like, why do people need to be, uh, angry about dance and so serious about dance? This is why I had to take a step out from it. Yeah. Yeah. That's the reason why I got into dance was because it was fun. And what had happened during the pandemic, it made me realize this ain't fun anymore.
F*** this s***.
Leslie: But so what happened? So to sort of like rewind the clock to this period of time where, you know, you're having this experience of being canceled. Cause you know, I'm just aware of what kind of happens next in your journey, because we're here to have a conversation about mental health.
Right. Like what happened next for you? Uh,
Jet: so, you know, you know, I talked about this in the, uh, [00:36:00] in the, uh, when I, when I first met you. At an event. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, it's, I, what had happened, I think from, uh, that timeframe after the, the, during that, uh, and even post, uh, that situation, like I went suicidal and I think this leads into that.
I got suicidal. Like I felt very alone. I felt like I didn't have any support. Um, it's, it, I went to a dark place. Yeah. And I think, uh, in 2020, 2022, uh, I think that's when I, that was when I was just going to do it. Okay. And I think the, with me talking about being canceled, um, that was one part that brought me to that state.
Yeah,
Leslie: I'm, I'm sure, or I have gotten the sense from, um, what I remember when we met at the event in Hollywood and I saw you speak there. I'm sure it's not the only thing that was factoring into this, but I get the sense that it was a factor, [00:37:00] like just really feeling, um, probably, really traumatized by that experience.
Oh, yeah. Of being kind of like like just sort of like publicly attacked and humiliated in that way, but is there anything else that you want to share about the other ingredients of what was going on in your life that got you to this really dark
Jet: place:? Yes, and I don't mind talking about it either. So that was one factor.
Sure. So I So yeah, I got burned at the stake. Yeah. And and I'll talk about the day that I was gonna just I was gonna f***ing do it. Like, that day I had, I had broken up with my girlfriend, and that's something I had to do. I knew that I had to, I had to do it. This wasn't right. And also, I had left one of my businesses as well.
And I think the other thing that was, that added on to that, the market, the state of the market at the time was, uh, was not hot. Like, it was like, so I had these four things piled on top of me. And the day, the night, actually it was at night, the night I was gonna do it, it was like, the feeling that I got was [00:38:00] like, what's the point?
You know, like, this, it's, I felt, the feelings that I had were, I was stressed. I felt very useless. I felt like I was useless to my relationship. I felt like I was useless to my, former business partners and I felt useless in my community that I helped built and I thought I, I was a part of. And then also the state of the market, like, I had, like, there was so much money I had lost because of, of the drop in the market at the time.
So, you know, it's like, these are things that I, that I, that I came across. And I was like, you know what, I feel like it's just easier to just f***ing do it. But, you know, I just, I chose to stick around and just see things out. And then, I think the story gets even more interesting after, after that. And I think I what I remember telling you. You know, I
Leslie: don't, I don't know that I remember what happened next.
Tell me. So
Jet: during that time period, uh, in 2022 last year. You know, I was depressed the whole f***ing year. It was, it was a, it was wild. [00:39:00] But there was something I noticed also was that there was a lot of people that dropped off that year in 2022. There was there were, uh, I, I personally had four friends total that... that died by suicide?
That died by suicide right after. Oh. Yeah, and it was consecutively throughout those, uh, throughout the year.
Leslie: That's a lot of, that's a lot of people for one person to lose. Like, that's to, to know four people who are dying by suicide in a year is a lot of, that's, like,
Jet: wow. Yeah, and I think the biggest impact on me, uh, was, uh, my friend, uh, Twitch.
Mm hmm. You know, he, uh, he, he passed in December. And me and Twitch, I've known Twitch since like 2008. You know, and Twitch is, uh, if I had to, you know, share that, I've, does everybody know who Twitch was? I don't know.
Leslie: Okay. Yeah, I don't know that everybody listening will know who he is.
Jet: Twitch, uh, Steven Twitch Boss, he was, uh, Ellen's DJ on the Ellen Degeneres Show.
And, uh, [00:40:00] I know, I've known him since 2008. Like, I knew him when he, we were both coming up in the dance scene. He was there before me, but, uh, I was there before. You two went way back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We went way back. Um, so yeah, out of everybody, I feel like honestly out of everybody in the dance industry, he was the one who made it.
Like he definitely made it to the top. Yeah. Like he was on the top. I mean, he was on, and he, yeah, he, even the times when he was on the Ellen show, he, he took her place. Like he, he, he had his, he had his own segment on the TV show and I was like, dude, that's, that's f***ing amazing. Well, and it's
Leslie: amazing to think that's something that you know, that I think a lot of people kind of can't really imagine or can't really appreciate is that, just because he was at the top doesn't mean that he was having like a great time of it or an easy go of it. Like, I think a lot of people sort of imagine that if you are at the top of your game as a celebrity, you've got it so good and [00:41:00] everything. But you know, you know, from firsthand experience that what it feels like on the inside can be very, very different than what it looks like on the outside.
Jet: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think that the reason why I, I felt extremely personally affected by, by his, his death. Well, obviously I was, I was affected by all of my friend's deaths, but uh, because I went through it. I went there. Yeah. And then it just like, and then it made me more empathetic to like, like why, you know?
Um, why didn't you want to stick around? But I think what had happened was, uh, like, I had disappeared from social media in 2022. After everything that had happened. I was like, you know what, let me just disappear. Um, but when I came back, you know, I wrote a note about, uh, like my experience. Because people were wondering like, yo, where are you?
Because I used to post all the time. Like, where are you? What are you doing? People were worried. And I was like, and I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna tell everybody. And I wrote this, I, I put up a note talking about like, you know, I was seriously suicidal, um, and my, with my experience, uh, through it.[00:42:00]
And it was also my, and also because of my, I also wrote about my observation of what was happening in the world and how crazy it was me being cancelled and me seeing things from a zoomed out perspective in the stock market and just kind of observing human behavior and why it led me there. And but I think it's because I had three, I had three friends you know who committed suicide, and that actually, that, that that actually pushed me to write, uh, about it.
Mm hmm. And then literally a week later, Twitch kills himself. Do I think he read it? Yes. Do I think it was inspired? I don't know. I know he read it. Wow. I know he did. And I think that's, that's why I am, I feel like personally responsible for it. Oh, wow. So it's like, because it was in December, I wrote this in like November, December, and then literally a week later, we, the
Leslie: news.
But how wild, if he read it, that he didn't feel like he could reach out to you. I mean, I think, I think, you know, one of the things that I'm just really aware of right now as we're having this conversation, I think it's a really important thing to [00:43:00] touch upon, is what a big difference it is between, um, having those feelings, having those thoughts and then going all the way through with carrying out the act.
Because I actually think that feeling suicidal is far more common than a lot of people know. I actually would, um, kind of venture to take what we could call an educated guess and say, probably that like well over 50 percent of the population knows what it's like to think those thoughts or feel those feelings at some point in their lifetime.
A far, far, far smaller percentage of people go like all the way through with carrying out the act. And it's just interesting and very, very sad to think about the mindset that he must've been in to like read what you wrote, to know that somebody that he knew and was like ostensibly friends with had had those feelings.
And he must've been in a place that was so dark that he still couldn't have reached out to you. Yeah. It's, it's a dark
Jet: thing to think about. [00:44:00] It's, like, I had, I had people telling me, like, it's, there's no way, but, like, dude, it was literally, like, a week after, and that post got so many, like, I got a huge engagement from that one
Leslie: post.
And if he didn't interact with it, we don't know. We don't know. But, but it, but it must have been terrible, terrible timing for you to post that and then get that news.
Jet: Yeah, it was rough. It was rough. I felt personally responsible for it, you know, um, you know, and, and kind of analyzing, uh, uh, that, uh, what's the word?
It's not postpartum, but like something, uh, what's the word for that? Um,
Leslie: post facto?
Jet: Post facto? Okay, I'll use that. There's, I know, it's like, it's right here and it's not coming out. Um, post facto. It's, you know, Twitch, the way I saw him, uh, as a person. When I first met him, he was, it was, it felt like he was like a different, not different person, same person, [00:45:00] but he had to, I felt like he had to carry himself a certain way because of the status he was in.
Yeah. And it was very different. I definitely lost touch with him, uh, during like the pandemic, uh, you know, because the way I saw him was like, yo, like, he's on a different plane. And I just was like, I respect what you're doing. But, but dude, yeah, it's, it was just, I felt like he was detached from his, like, inner person.
That's what I, that's, that's just my, my thoughts on it post facto. Sure. That's the best way I can describe it.
Leslie: Um, how did you eventually get to the point where you started feeling better and feeling less suicidal?
Jet: Um
Leslie: I mean, I suppose I'm making an assumption as I say that. But I, but I do get the sense from the way that you speak and all of the mental health advocacy work that you do now that you're in a different place.
So like, what, what do you suppose were the [00:46:00] ingredients of that?
Jet: Uh, excuse me. So the, the, the question for my brain went this way. Sorry. So the question. Just like, how
Leslie: did you, um, how did you get out of it? How did, how did you, what, like, what do you credit your survival to after that phase of life?
Jet: I think for me was definitely, I had to explore why I wanted to be here again.
And I think for me, it was, it was more of a factor of, uh, I traveled. I went, I went outside the U. S., I went to Asia, um, I went to places where it was a lot more simple. And I went, basically went back to my homeland, in the Philippines. You know, so, well, I, well, I wasn't born there, but like, we're my, my, my father.
Sure, your ancestral home. I went out there, and you know, out there, in the Philippines, it's... you got kids, like, like, we I feel like in America, we complain about, like, poverty, we complain about, like, oh, we're not, the government's not giving enough, uh, giving us this enough, or whatever, like, relying on, um, uh, welfare programs and s*** like that.[00:47:00]
Out there, you still got kids taking baths in rivers with trash around. You know, that's the kind of poverty that I see in the Philippines. And like, me going back to that, it just made me realize, you know what? Like, I need to be around some more simple s*** where people still hunt and fish for their food, you know?
I need to be around that s***. And that, that kind of, that definitely brought me back to, uh, a ground plane. Uh, yeah, Philippines, Vietnam,
Leslie: um. I would imagine some piece of that is realizing how much you have to be grateful for in the United States. Yeah. You know, you've got running water and electricity and
Jet: It's, it just makes me realize that, like, we have, because we have so many options, we have more reasons to complain about stuff.
Sure. Out there, you don't because you don't really have a lot of options. You know, you, you don't, you, some people don't have money to go to grocery stores. They actually got to fish, fish their food and hunt their food. Yeah. You know, so I, I needed to be around that just to feel [00:48:00] just to, yeah, be grateful.
Kind of have things put in perspective. Basically, yes. But aside from that, um, you know, I, like dance for me was an outlet. Yeah. And it's, it's crazy because the community that cancelled me was the same place where I would, that was my outlet. So it was just like, and I was like, I'm not dancing anymore. Like, it just put me in a, like, nah, I ain't doing that.
So, um, I actually, I think what even, it gave me more reasons to stick around was, you know what, I'm going to just focus on, on music. And music was something that I've, that I've been doing and it was an outlet that that was, I feel like it was the last creative outlet that I could touch. I've done, you know, dancing stuff.
I've, I've done acting stuff in this industry. I have a taste of it, but music was the last thing. So it's like, I was constantly trying to find reasons to just like, okay, what I need to be. I need to, I need to find a reason to stick around. Like what's my f***ing purpose [00:49:00] here? And I think that's the reason why I, I look at as, you know, Twitch as an, as an, excuse me, as an example. Brother had everything, you know, he had, he had beautiful family.
His whole life was on the internet. You know, but then he takes
Leslie: himself out. Yeah, and I'll, and I'll just jump in here really quick and say that he kind of had, like seemingly had everything and had everything on paper that we're told to want. But I think if you're missing the piece on the inside that gives you, you know, joy, gratitude, peace, you know, all of the things that are missing when a person is depressed enough to kill themselves, like none of it matters.
Jet: It doesn't matter. It doesn't, all, all that s***. The cars, the money, all that s***. It doesn't f***ing. It doesn't matter
Leslie: at
Jet: all. No. You know, it's, it's, uh, It's, it's, it's so wild to me that, you know, seeing that is why I [00:50:00] went back to the Philippines because I, you know, I have an example of this in America. My friend f***ing self deletes, I go to the Philippines and you got people that barely have, probably had no money.
They're
Leslie: f***ing happy as hell. I was just about to, I was just about to ask you that and kind of just about to go there, but isn't that wild? Yeah. And I will say too, that I don't think. It feels so confusing, right? Because we are force fed such an intense message. That, you know, in the Western world and particularly the United States to make a comment that is very much so focused on American culture and society for a moment.
We're made to feel like we have everything, you know, I was, it's like just the other day, this video, President Biden was saying, you know, this is the most powerful, country on the, on the planet, you know? And it's kind of like, yeah, but so powerful that we don't have, you know, healthcare and that kind of [00:51:00] stuff.
Anyway, point being, we are force fed this message that like this is the best place in the world you could ever possibly be from. And meanwhile, it's actually a, um, very broken culture and a broken society in a lot of ways. We have people feel extremely isolated here. We're one of the most sort of like individualistic and isolationist countries on the planet.
And the thing that's so wild is that you can go to places like the Philippines and see children that have nothing that are like fishing for their food. Like you're saying, they have much greater levels of. Joy. Yeah. And it's partially because they have sincere connection in their relationships, the support of their community, you know, they're not given backwards notions that they should find joy in the largest flat screen TV.
Right. You know, it's, we have it so upside down and backwards here. And so I just want to really like emphasize that, that I so hear you and it's, it's [00:52:00] wild.
Jet: Thank you. Yeah, I, I, and I think that's it. It's just, we, we're not grateful enough out here, but we're also taught, like, you should
Leslie: get more. We have a really, we're, we are force fed some really f***ed up ideas about what it is we're supposed to be grateful for.
Yeah. You know, it's like people, um, you know, live alone, have like a meaningful lack of community, you know, just like there, we are missing a lot of things that, you know, it's like people live alone, have like a meaningful lack of community. You know, just like there, we are missing a lot of things that, um, are the real ingredients of joy and happiness. And we're made to feel like we should be happy because we have, you know, I don't know, either a nice car or like I said, a big flat screen TV,
Jet: you know. You know what it is,
is because having sincere connections, having community, nobody makes money off that. It's true. Those are things that are priceless.
Leslie: Yeah, and I actually think that, I think that you are making an astoundingly good point. Because, [00:53:00] you know, I can look at all of these other things that are ingredients in all of this.
Like, um, the sort of like dissolution of, of free third spaces in the United States. So like it's very hard for people to gather without spending money. Like it's one thing to have somebody into your home. I think a lot of that has kind of become a lost art. People don't, you know, totally really know how to gather any longer.
They don't really understand that like you can invite people into your home and like it's okay if you don't know how to cook. You know what I mean? Like people get themselves all like whipped up. And sort of wound around the axle in that department. But if you're going to sort of go into, if you want to go out into the world and see people or connect with your community, the assumption is that you will spend money on that.
Yeah. You know that you can't, there's just, we don't have that much in the way of like free third spaces that people can go. To where they can just kind of like, recreate, to use the dorkiest word I can think of, without spending money on it. Yeah. And you're totally right. Like, there isn't any, the, the um, the [00:54:00] machine of capitalism right.
Cannot churn a profit on two people just having like a heartfelt conversation with each
Jet: other. Yeah. And I, I think it's, and here's the thing, I'm like, I'm not opposed to capitalism. But I think, because we're already living in a capitalistic society, it's really just like up to us to strengthen your filter, you know, in terms of filtering the information that you take. Like. I could not agree with you more.
I think this going back to this, to the, to the Israel Palestine conflict, you know, it's like, uh, last Monday as I was paying, I've been paying attention to what's going on. But, you know, Obviously, we, right now, we're, we're in a phase where we're seeing what Israel is doing, and they're, they're like, destroying Palestine.
And it's like, I understand that, but I also have, I like, my family is, I, I have Jewish family members. You know, and it's, it's kind of like, I, I empathize with them. But it's very weird, because I think in the, that Monday, [00:55:00] um, you had people supporting Israel, and then now that like, it's shifted. People are like, whoa, Israel, you're going crazy.
Leslie: Yes, and I'm noticing that the public sentiment is shifting. Yeah. Like every single day. It's,
Jet: but, but here's the thing. Like I, I understand that, but at the same time, it's like, I feel like you're still allowed to just, just watch and kind of observe and just kind of, just not take a side too because
Leslie: Yeah, it's. I think a lot of people probably could use that message I don't know that a lot of people realize like you could just watch it and not. Yeah,
Jet: like I agree. And the reason why I say this is because, you know, I've, I've been in a mental space where I barely could get, get out of bed.
Yeah. Like, even more so if I, if I was going through my, my phase during the Israel Palestine conflict, I don't even know what I would do. Like, I'm like, I don't have time for this. I'm just trying to get out of bed. You know, like, it's like, it's like it can, there's some people in this, in this world, in the U. S. who can barely function. And [00:56:00] it's like, they don't have that mental capacity to be, to, to care about what's
Leslie: going on there. I will tell you that something that I speak about a lot, like, just as I'm talking about sort of like mental health and how do we take care of ourselves, especially when the per, the, the whole world is in such a fraught place.
Um, I find myself talking a lot about the importance of knowing when to just like turn off the news, get off the internet. And it's a multifaceted thing because I think on the one hand, not only is it really destructive for people to sort of be super plugged into a news cycle that they cannot do anything about.
Right. When you are on the internet, you are pretty much by default, not interacting with another person, not having a heart to heart conversation. You're most likely not in nature. You know, like people are spending too much time like isolated and on their devices. So I just like all of that is to say, I couldn't agree with you more.
Yeah.
Jet: I, it's, when I think about, you know, people in the Philippines and it's like my people in the Philippines, like they, like, [00:57:00] they're not feeling the same mental effects we are because they don't have the capacity. They don't have that, they don't have iPhones. Well, now they mostly do, but it's like, there's a lot of people out there who just, they can't worry about it because they don't have the, they don't have the physical means to be connected to the world.
Like we are. Yeah. You know, so it's, it's, it's crazy to think that we're, this is a first world problem. I think that's what it is. This is a first world problem for us to be so connected to this
Leslie: world. Yeah. Well, and I, you know, it's so wild to think that. First world problems can be extremely destructive problems.
Yeah. You know, it's, it kind of turns the idea of that term on its head. If you think about it that way, when people are, are killing themselves because they're so isolated because of their first world problems. That's it. That is some wild s***. That's it. But so let me ask you, maybe just to start to kind of like wrap us up here, but just in terms of your mental health [00:58:00] advocacy work that I know you're so engaged in and you're doing a lot of awesome work in this space, like what else do you want people to know?
What are some of the most important things to you that you want to impart to anyone who might be listening right now? Thank
Jet: you. I think, I think this, I guess this covers pretty much most of the topic that we, we talked about in terms like, uh, mental health. The funny thing is, I don't know if I'm helping people.
It's just more like, I'm telling a story of like, hey, if you, if you've been there, just letting you know this is what I did. Yeah. And it's, I think just to break it down simply, it's just, you know, just know that, happiness is fleeting. And it's not based on material things. It's not based on your achievements.
I mean, I think, when I, when I talk about achievements, like, you know, you're, like, these, like, oh, getting a house, getting a car, like, all these, those, that stuff is fleeting. You know, it's, I really think that it's more about, you have to ask the question, like, what are you doing here? Yeah. I think [00:59:00] more than anything, because the things we talk about, the things that are priceless, friends, family, community, purpose, those are all priceless things.
You don't need to pay money for
Leslie: that. Meaning, to feel like your life has meaning, to feel like you have a sense of what your
Jet: meaning is. Yeah. Yeah. There's no price on that. And I think, I think for me, uh, aside from that it's, uh, what I'm coming in to understand about myself is that I definitely find happiness, this fluctuating happiness, in progress.
Like, am I progressing in life? Am I, am I, am I, am I, am I, am I better than yesterday? Am I better than last year? Like, am I improving in some sort of way? Because if I'm not, then what's the point? And this might be different for a lot of people, you know, this, my, my way is going to be different than, than other people, you know, it's, it's like, you know, I have, I have male biology, and it's like, this is my way of doing it.
[01:00:00] It might be different for you. It might be different for others, but this is my
Leslie: way. No, I'm with you that everybody's got to find their own thing, you know. And something that I'll offer is a little bit of a PSA here, just going back to this idea of like, kind of wondering whether you're being helpful. I think you're absolutely being helpful.
I think that having conversations like this is really, really important. And I think it's important for someone to have the courage to be out there in the, in the world saying like, you know, yes, I felt this way. I got through it. Um, what I'll offer people, um, because this could be like maybe an important piece of a person's education is that, like I said before, I think a lot of people know what it's like to sort of feel passively suicidal.
Yeah. Um, you know, in the biz, we sometimes call it passive suicidal ideation, just to distance ourselves from it a little bit. You know, we like to give things fancy terms so that we can kind of be a little bit more intellectualized about it. [01:01:00] But a lot of people know what it's like to feel suicidal. It becomes a different story when people find themselves having a plan for how they want to carry it out and the means to carry it out.
Um, you know, so to be like very, just to use really blunt language for a moment. It's like, if somebody is thinking that they would want to overdose on a certain kind of pill and they have access to that pill, that is when the conversation starts to get a lot more serious. And so I just want anyone to know if they're listening to this right now, that if they're feeling that way, if they're starting to notice that they're getting to that place, you know, they can, they can call the National Suicide Hotline.
There's a national crisis line now, 988, that we can call in the United States. If you're outside of the United States, just try to find like, you know, your local, um, outside of the United States, they tend to have actually better support services. But I think it's really important to just let people know that it's a really important dividing line.
And if somebody [01:02:00] knows somebody in their lives that is like struggling with feeling suicidal, knowing whether they're at a point where they're actually like making serious plans to carry it out is really important. Because I think just being able to kind of like talk about these feelings, thoughts, urges, lots of people, many, many, many people that I know are listening to this right now know what it's like to just sort of like wish that they would go to sleep at the end of the day and not wake up in the morning. Like just sort of feeling like, oh, f***, this is so hard.
I just like, I wish I didn't have to be here anymore. Like that's very, very common. And I think from that standpoint, it's really important for people to have these conversations with each other. It's important for people to hear people talking like this. And if I can kind of offer you anything or absolve you of anything, there is no way that your post like urged Twitch to kill himself.
I think that he he may very well have not seen it. But if he saw it, it surely was not the thing that pushed him over the edge, because usually [01:03:00] people are comforted by hearing that like other people know what this feels like. So I just wanted to offer that, but I think it's, I think the work you're doing is really important and I would hope that you would never question that.
Jet: Thank you. You got it. Yeah, I appreciate
Leslie: that. Is there anything else you want to
Jet: say before you wrap up? You know, uh, the, the just the thought ballooned in my mind or thought bubble came up in my mind, but I I did a podcast, after I think last year. Or excuse me, this year. And actually, the, and I was talking about everything.
It's pretty much the same subject. Sure. That, that podcast was actually taken down. Yeah. Like apparently the, the, the subject matter was too, uh, explicit for the, um, for the sponsor of that,
Leslie: of that. For the sponsor of it. That's what I was going to ask. Yeah.
Jet: Okay. So it's kind of, it's kind of interesting how, like, that basically, I think that [01:04:00] lit me on fire.
I was like, I was like, f*** that. I'm gonna tell my story. You know, like, it's like not fair. There is
Leslie: a lot, there's a lot of fear around this. Yeah. And so it's interesting. Um, I'm sort of torn between wanting to ask you who the sponsor is, or if you want, you can tell me offline. Um, yeah. It's not to sort of throw anybody specifically under the bus, especially because I think that it is about fear.
Yeah. You know, I'm, I'm less interested in sort of like, you know, maligning them and more just kind of holding space for the idea that I think that, for a lot of people, there's a lot of fear around having this conversation. There is a lot of fear that by talking about it, you're going to make it happen.
Yeah. I just want to state for the record, that is not how any any of this works. This is not like looking in the mirror and saying candy, candy man, three times. Like when people are having these feelings, they are not urged to take action by hearing other people have candid conversations about mental health.
But I think that for, especially for a lot of organizations and [01:05:00] those organizations' governing bodies, then there's like extra amounts of fear of like, what are we putting our, what are we aligning our brand with? And what are we? And I just, what, for whatever it's worth, I just hope you'll keep doing what you've been doing.
I think it's, um, really
Jet: important. Cool. Thank you. And I think this goes to show that, uh, I'm very about reality. And I feel like the more we, we coddle people and not let them face it, the more we're just going to go, we're just going to go downhill. Yeah.
Leslie: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to do this with me today.
Thanks for having me. You've been watching or listening to The Nature of Nurture with me, Dr. Leslie Carr, and I want to thank you for joining us. You can find Jet at Just Jet across all social media platforms. You can find me personally on Instagram. I'm @DrLeslieCarr. Many thanks to Jet for having this conversation with me.
And to all the people who worked behind the scenes to make it happen. Full credits [01:06:00] can be found in the show notes. If you found this conversation valuable, please let me know by leaving a review or rating, or by sharing the episode with at least one person who you think might enjoy it too. You can also like or subscribe on YouTube or in any podcast app that you can get your hands on.
Thank you again. I'll see you next time.